Lacquer v Clear Coat

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  Hampton Caught on Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:23 pm

Dear All,

I've got myself 'confusified' by lacquer and clear coat.

I know that Clear Coat helps give a metallic paint it's metallic 'shiney' finish but which is better for 1/43 scale models? Should one be used on modern water-based paints and one on cellulose or does it not matter? For the model maker who wants to produce a shiney, smooth finish on paintwork with (or without decals), which is better, how many coats and what preparation between costs if more than one is used?

Sorry for all the questions - hopefully I'm not the only one who will benefit from the forthcoming hints/ tips and good practice? Thanks in advance, Steve
avatar
Hampton Caught

Posts : 2285
Join date : 2012-02-09
Age : 49
Location : near Hampton Court

Back to top Go down

Re: Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  Cazzo on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:46 pm

.

Steve, clear coat is just another way of saying lacquer,

There are 2 main types of lacquer single pack (1K) also called One pack, this lacquer does not need any hardener added for it to cure/go hard,
This lacquer is used in an aerosol, but you can buy a tin to spray through a gun or air brush,
1K is good enough for 1/43 models but it can be very thin so needs a lot of coats to build up a good shine,

The other lacquer is called Two Pack (2K) and comes in High Solid (HS) & Medium Solid (MS,) this lacquer does need hardener for it to cure/go hard,
You cant buy it in an aerosol as it needs to be mixed with hardener so it needs sprayed through a gun or airbrush,
Also this lacquer needs heat to speed up the drying time, once it goes hard you will have to let it sit for at least a day before adding decals or building it up,

The lacquer I use is the 2K as I use it in work for painting 1/1 scale so I'm well use to it and have all the things I need here,

For spraying 1/43 models the 1K lacquer would do the job, tho you will get a better finish using a gun or airbrush,
The amount of coats needed depends on how the model is prep'd, colour being covered, how thin the lacquer is and how the first coat of lacquer goes on,
If using an aerosol you cant tell how many coats is needed you will just have to judge it as you go, building it up until you have a good finish that you are happy with,

With a gun or airbrush using 2K you would put a catch coat on first and let it flash off with a bit of heat, catch coat is just a quick coat, this bites into the paint and helps stops the 2nd wet coat from running,
Once the catch coat goes tacky you can add a wet coat to finish, wet coat is just a slower coat putting more lacquer on than your first (catch coat) make sure you get an even coat for a good shine,


I hope this helps you see what types of lacquer are out there and when you pick the one that suits you best give me a shout and I'll go into more detail on that one,







.
avatar
Cazzo

Posts : 1951
Join date : 2012-02-08
Age : 43
Location : N.Ireland

https://www.facebook.com/moirarally.prep.5?ref=tn_tnmn

Back to top Go down

Re: Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  CDM on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:32 pm

Steve

One thing I have learnt over the years is that if you are going to lacquer any model don’t rub down the base colour with any paste or polish before you do the lacquer. If you do the lacquer will craze over the years.

Modern water base colours are matt so will always need lacquer on these. Personally I never lacquer any model unless they have a metallic finish.

I build 1930s styling cars for a collector friend. A few years ago I built up a 1930s Voisin in black for him. I tried something different on this one. After spraying the body in black out of a can in the normal way, after the last coat I used fine wet n dry and smoothed out the colour leaving it almost matt. I then polished it up with real car polish. It was incredible it just looked like hand painted enamel paint as it may have been in the old days. It wasn’t shiny like a modern lacquer but had a very deep shine. The chap still goes on about how brilliant it looks!! Dark colours are brilliant for this, as I have tried it on a few more of his models since.

Lacquer should not be used as a cover for poor painting in the first place.

Just as Colin rightly says above if you are spraying a real car the finish is all down to preparation, preparation, heat and how you do it etc… same as with a model it all in the preparation, heat and how you do it!!.

Cheers
Chris

CDM

Posts : 924
Join date : 2012-02-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  Hampton Caught on Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:26 pm

Thanks for the help and advice, guys. very much appreciated. Very Happy

I'm making a Rover 3500 series one model (it's a Heller kit) and decided to make it up as the V8S model and have painted it in a vibrant shade of green, 'Triton Green'. I've spent much time and effort on preparing the body, gently rubbing down with VERY fine grade wet and dry and the results reflect my efforts using a rattle can. Very pleased so far! I already had a brochure for the car in my collection so have been using that to get the interior detail just right.

My next question is for advice on using lacquer given that I want to leave the blck paint on the B and C pillars with a matt finish. Should I mask off the pillars, spray the lacquer and finally paint the pillars with matt, or lacquer the whole car and paint the matt afterwards? Shocked

Many thanks, Steve
avatar
Hampton Caught

Posts : 2285
Join date : 2012-02-09
Age : 49
Location : near Hampton Court

Back to top Go down

Re: Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  Cowley on Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:31 pm

Easy one that mate - lacquer the whole car and detail paint it afterwards. That's what I did on my Knebworth 6R4 and it worked a treat Steve. Good luck!
avatar
Cowley

Posts : 3827
Join date : 2012-02-08
Location : Derbyshire

https://www.facebook.com/pages/CODE343/414306915273338

Back to top Go down

Re: Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  Hampton Caught on Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:40 pm

Hi David,

I've just seen your latest photos of the Knebworth car and very impressive they are! Thanks for the advice, I'll go and do that very thing now!!

Cheers, Steve
avatar
Hampton Caught

Posts : 2285
Join date : 2012-02-09
Age : 49
Location : near Hampton Court

Back to top Go down

Re: Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  Cowley on Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:24 pm

Hampton Caught wrote:Hi David,

I've just seen your latest photos of the Knebworth car and very impressive they are! Thanks for the advice, I'll go and do that very thing now!!

Cheers, Steve
Many thanks fella - that is very kind of you! Embarassed

Make sure you leave the lacquer long enough - 24 hours, possibly more? - to thoroughly dry Steve. Wink

You wouldn't want to ruin it by applying the enamel detail paint too soon mate. Sad
avatar
Cowley

Posts : 3827
Join date : 2012-02-08
Location : Derbyshire

https://www.facebook.com/pages/CODE343/414306915273338

Back to top Go down

Re: Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  Hampton Caught on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:53 pm

Hi David,

Yes, having told myself I've learnt to be patient, I'm going to bear that in mind and concentrate on the interior! I've put two coats of lacquer on the model this evening. Haven't tried stroking the model to see how smooth the finish is as I know it won't be very smooth after that! Shocked

I figured I'd wait until later in the week before considering a gentle rub down with very fine paper and a final coat of lacquer. Is that a no-no?! affraid

Cheers, Steve
avatar
Hampton Caught

Posts : 2285
Join date : 2012-02-09
Age : 49
Location : near Hampton Court

Back to top Go down

Re: Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  Cowley on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:56 pm

Hey I'm about as new to lacquer as you are yourself Steve, so I'll pass on that last question of yours, and leave it to someone with more experience. Wink
avatar
Cowley

Posts : 3827
Join date : 2012-02-08
Location : Derbyshire

https://www.facebook.com/pages/CODE343/414306915273338

Back to top Go down

Re: Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  Cazzo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:13 pm

Hampton Caught wrote:Hi David,

Yes, having told myself I've learnt to be patient, I'm going to bear that in mind and concentrate on the interior! I've put two coats of lacquer on the model this evening. Haven't tried stroking the model to see how smooth the finish is as I know it won't be very smooth after that! Shocked

I figured I'd wait until later in the week before considering a gentle rub down with very fine paper and a final coat of lacquer. Is that a no-no?! affraid

Cheers, Steve

Steve just remember the more product (paint or lacquer) you put on the more chance you have of running into hassle,
Sometimes re-coating after a few days can cause the paint or lacquer to craze up, this is when it goes all wrinkly,
I'm not too sure why it happens but I think the heat from drying the re-coat makes the first coat from a few days ago go soft and react with the fresh coats that have just been applied,

If you have 2 good coats of lacquer on the model then try a non silicone car polish to bring up the shine,


.
avatar
Cazzo

Posts : 1951
Join date : 2012-02-08
Age : 43
Location : N.Ireland

https://www.facebook.com/moirarally.prep.5?ref=tn_tnmn

Back to top Go down

Re: Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  Hampton Caught on Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:38 pm

Hi, thanks for the advice Cazzo. I'm going to have to sweat it out by the looks of it. Embarassed Having Googled for advice on rubbing down lacquer and satisfied myself that it was OK if I took it easy, that's what I've done.

I used the finest wet and dry paper I have (2500 ish) and very gently rubbed the lacquer (but not down to the paint). I rinsed the bodywork, dried it with the hair dryer (not too hot) and got a lovely smooth finish. Applied one more coat of lacquer which I'm letting dry at room temperature as I've done with the previous coats. So far the results look promising!

I take your point about the more you put on, the more likely you are to have problems! Sometimes the learning process isn't very comfortable, is it?! Keep 'em crossed, and thanks again, Steve
avatar
Hampton Caught

Posts : 2285
Join date : 2012-02-09
Age : 49
Location : near Hampton Court

Back to top Go down

Re: Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  RORY O CONNOR on Sun May 06, 2012 10:24 am

Any recommendations for spray can stuff. I used Halfords stuff once and it reacted with the Halford's base coat ruining the whole model so had to strip it and start all over!
avatar
RORY O CONNOR

Posts : 1143
Join date : 2012-02-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  Hampton Caught on Mon May 07, 2012 12:30 am

Hi Rory,

I got hold of a can of Holts Clear Lacquer (code L101C) which I've used on a couple of models now. I'm very happy with it, it leaves a lovely, shiney surface with very smooth finish. I have noticed it's reacted (slightly) with the Gundam paint I've used on the windscreen surrounds of the Sherpa van I've completed today but the series one Rover V8S (in Triton green and which I'll finish Monday) hasn't reacted the same way! Odd!

I'm wondering if anyone knows if you can use the same clear lacquer to seal in inkjet decals off the printer or is the acrylic lacquer for 'craft'purposes different? Hmmm! Shocked

Cheers, Steve
avatar
Hampton Caught

Posts : 2285
Join date : 2012-02-09
Age : 49
Location : near Hampton Court

Back to top Go down

Re: Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  srsmodels on Mon May 07, 2012 7:14 pm

Which one of these has a yellowv tint as i have had a couple of models that the white paint has a off look

srsmodels

Posts : 1420
Join date : 2012-02-08
Location : Carlisle CUMBRIA

Back to top Go down

Re: Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  Hampton Caught on Mon May 07, 2012 7:52 pm

srsmodels wrote:Which one of these has a yellowv tint as i have had a couple of models that the white paint has a off look

Hmm! Ask me in a few years time?! Wink

I guess it depends on how much direct sunlight the models have been in and whether the paint was brilliant white to begin with or not. Certainly, the (Holts) lacquer I've used has no colour to it. I suspect that older, oil-based paints (and lacquers?) may go yellowy sooner than modern water-based paints. Would be good to hear from one of the 'old hands' about their experiences. Guys?

Cheers, Steve
avatar
Hampton Caught

Posts : 2285
Join date : 2012-02-09
Age : 49
Location : near Hampton Court

Back to top Go down

Re: Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  srsmodels on Mon May 07, 2012 8:53 pm

The 2 models i am asking about are a few months old and have never been displayed.....

srsmodels

Posts : 1420
Join date : 2012-02-08
Location : Carlisle CUMBRIA

Back to top Go down

Re: Lacquer v Clear Coat

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum